Monday, February 20, 2006

Discussing Dewormers for goats-In depth!

Isn't it funny all the grey area around which wormer and De Louser to use?
I was at my vet for 2 hours Wed for disbudding 4 kids and I asked him every
question I could think of to get out of him which wormer exactly I should
use and still left confused. I bought the Ivomec Plus Cattle Injectible and
planned on giving it oral but he told me there is not proof it works and
that I should not triple the dose as the "Plus" part is a chemical that is
too dangerous to triple! I am still confused about whether I should inject
or give orally! I want to do what is easiest on the goats but what is best
as I live in a reclaimed swamp area and always assume I have parasites.

MY (Rather Long) Answer to her question:

Teresa, first of all he is full of S__T!
Secondly why did it take him 2 hours to disbud 4 kids_ this is a job done in less than 10 minutes for all 4 of them.
I so dislike most vets!
Ivomec plus is used at the rate of 1cc/30lbs orally or injected at my house.
Giving a dewormer orally will kill quicker and stay in the body less time- injecting it will kill at a slower rate and stay in the body longer killing longer.
The rule of thumb I use is this:
Maintenance, I use it orally.. this is for seasonal dewormings.. herdwide.
Targeting those who are obviously wormy, I inject it. Why?
Because.. if a goat has a heavy wormload and you kill quick- the larvae all die at the same rate and all dislodge from the stomach and intestinal wall at approximately the same time causing internal bleeding and the dead larvae, if not dispelled from the body quickly, will go toxic inside the body.
Ivomec Plus has Clorsulon in it, which is the medication for killing liver fluke. Ivomec Plus has 10mg/ml ivermectin and 100mg/ml clorsulon- so if you give 1 ml (cc) to a 50 lb goat you are giving it 10 milligrams of ivermectin and 100 milligrams of clorsulon - both drugs have a wide margin of safety.
Neither drug is approved for the use in goats as are most of the drugs we use for goats- we use them at what is known as "Off Label" Because studies just have not been performed for goat use in most instances, not saying they are dangerous, just that the FDA has not done the studies and made them approved.
So here is more information that you probably asked for:

Overdosage/Acute Toxicity - Clorsulon is very safe when administered orally to cattle or sheep. Doses of up to 400 mg/kg (That is 400 mg or in this case 4 mls, since each ml contains 100mgs-, per 2.5 lbs guys) have not produced toxicity in sheep! A dose that is toxic in cattle has also not been determined.


Life Cycle of Liver Flukes

The prevalence of liver flukes is limited by the distribution of the snail intermediate host. Low areas such as wet pastures and streams of water through the eating area promote the growth and reproduction of snails, which are infected by the miracidium , a motile larva that hatches from fluke eggs shed in goat feces. After a 6- to 8-week development, motile cercariae are shed by the snail and encyst as metacercariae on vegetation. These metacercariae are somewhat resistant to environmental extremes and may survive for several months on pasture. To complete the life cycle, metacercariae are ingested by goats grazing on pasture, migrate as young flukes to the liver and after 8 to 10 weeks of growing to adult flukes begin depositing eggs that are excreted in feces.

Control of Liver Flukes

Control of liver flukes includes some sort of treatment procedure as well as a control of the snail as the intermediate host. Snails are carriers of liver flukes, which is why a total parasite control program should include pasture management. Snail control means providing good drainage for low-lying areas or by fencing off the area favorable for snail habitats.


Currently, the only product available for the control of liver fluke is CURATREM® (clorsulon, Merck and Co., P0 Box 200, Rahway, N.J. 070650914). It is highly effective against immature and adult liver fluke and has a wide safety margin at the recommended dose.
Actually this is not current information as Valbazen IS effective in the control of Liver FLuke: Valbazen is Albendazole, while it is not a safe drug of choice for pregnant does in the first 30 days of pregnancy, it is very effective during dry periods, for wethers and bucks. Great for kids as well, because of the tapeworm removal it provides.

A special note about oral dosing:

Oral dosing is usually the recommended route of administration for sheep and goats. Studies have shown oral dosing to be more effective than other routes of administration. Injectable products can be administered orally. Pour-on products should not be used on sheep and goats unless they are administered orally. Levamisole drench or oblets are preferred to Levamisole injectable due to a wider margin of safety.

A special note about goats:

Goats metabolize dewormers differently than sheep or cattle. The drugs clear their system faster. As a result, they require higher doses of the drugs for effective treatment, typically 1.5 to 2 times the cattle/sheep dose. Producers should consult with a veterinarian to determine the proper dosage for their animals and to discuss the use of drugs that are not labeled for sheep and/or goats.